In all the hullabaloo over the new Disney/LFL kissyface, who cares about something as mundane as books? I do, that’s who.
Yes, this is all speculation. Yes, I don’t know what I’m talking about. (Exactly how does that distinguish me from the rest of the blogosphere?) I don’t know what this deal will mean to jobs at either Disney or Lucasfilm, though as a survivor of a big publishing acquisition, I can assure you that the buyer holds all the cards. However, unlike most, I do speak as someone with a modicum of backstage knowledge anent the STAR WARS book-publishing program, b/c I was part of the team that revived it in the 1990s. This acquisition of Lucasfilm Ltd. – and Lucas Licensing, let’s make sure to underline – by Disney may actually disturb the “canon” that has long been established in the library universe. If that should happen, the movie arm will simply swat that literary stuff away – or maybe it’s all bigger than that! I wouldn’t imagine Disney has even considered the issues I’m about to raise, but future fans will. So adjust your propeller beanies, and let’s blast off!
When Bantam offered to extend the fictional lives of STAR WARS characters in the early 90s, everybody assumed there was nothing to lose. As I’ve already written, the property itself was only on simmer. Let Han and Leia marry, and even have kids. Where was the downside? As it happened, though, Bantam’s releases ignited a long-simmering powder keg among STAR WARS fans, and demonstrated a huge pent-up demand for more stories in this universe. These books set in action a sequence of events that directly led to the filmed “prequel trilogy.” Without book-length kindling, you’d have no new movies. (I’ve heard a cynic or two say, “Great!,” but I don’t share that view. I’m inspired by the fact that printed books, just words on paper, were still able to have such an impact on popular culture at the end of the twentieth century, and I enjoyed the prequel movies, especially Episode III, far more than their detractors seem willing to concede is even possible.)
However, nobody – in my view, not even George – reckoned on a potential continuation of the cinematic STAR WARS story beyond the end of RETURN OF THE JEDI. He’s always said it was a nine-film saga (and if you believe Disney’s gonna stop after STAR WARS Episode IX, I have a storm-weathered suspension bridge to Brooklyn on which you might care to bid), but I truly don’t believe he ever thought his bluff would actually be called. That’s why he gave Bantam the go-ahead to set its first novel five years later. STAR WARS author Tim Zahn has already weighed in on this issue, and maybe there is some wiggle room. But Disney announced that as part of the deal, George has already delivered treatments for the next three films.
If Disney/Lucasfilm declares with a feature film that the generation-ago literary tie-ins must have occurred in some parallel universe, what will happen to the stories, some elements of which have already crept into the filmed “canon”? You’ll wind up with a Moebius-strip narrative that’ll make the hugely episodic STAR TREK story look Dickensian by comparison, the same kind of jam in which DC Comics found itself when it finally decided to blow everything up in CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. Some comics fans still aren’t sure what’s what, and that happened twenty-five years ago!
The STAR WARS book publishing program has long been bled very thin, and its subjects these days are mostly outliers in the universe, increasingly decipherable only by fanboys and girls. That’s why most of the books no longer make the New York Times bestseller list. (Although I have no doubt they’re still hugely profitable, and that Del Rey Books is delighted to have the program around.) It will be fascinating to watch what happens if the next three films intrude on what has already been published. I assure you that new movies will take precedence over old books – but how then will the Empire manage to preserve what it already holds?
4/25/14: Today, as I predicted in graf 2 up there, Lucasfilm announced that new STAR WARS material going forward will only consider the movies, animated series, and certain aspects of 80s-era role-playing games to be “history.” The books and stuff, I guess, officially didn’t happen. Here’s Variety’s report.
11/2/15: Today we learned that Lucasfilm has requested that Del Rey postpone the hardcover publication of its Alan Dean Foster novelization of the next movie, THE FORCE AWAKENS — and Del Rey has, duh, said ok. The e-publication can go on for mid-December and the release of the movie, but Disney was concerned that the long lead time necessary for print publication, what with presses and proofs and such, created an environment ripe for fan spoiling. (It’s way harder to get an advance copy of an e-book.) This means that Del Rey must cede the lucrative holiday season for what would undoubtedly have been a huge bestseller, the ultimate tie-in; they’ll pub in print in January. But the former LFL is the proverbial golden goose, so any prudent publisher does whatever the hell it says. (Remind me sometime to tell you about Bantam and the DICK TRACY movie.)
You and Me, Dupree 
Turn and face the strange …
Ch-ch-changes …
And a tip of the hat to David Bowie …
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…but you can’t trace time. Which is all I was really trying to say.
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The Expanded Universe was always a ‘parallel universe’, Lucas said it numerous times, and he didn’t consider the EU part of the Official Canon or a part of his Star Wars universe. Quotes below –
“I get asked all the time, ‘What happens after “Return of the Jedi”?,’ and there really is no answer for that,” he said. “The movies were the story of Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker, and when Luke saves the galaxy and redeems his father, that’s where that story ends.””
~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, May 2008, “George Lucas: ‘Star Wars’ won’t go beyond Darth Vader”, interview with Los Angeles Times
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“There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.”
~ George Lucas, Cinescape, 2002
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“And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn’t come back to life, the Emperor doesn’t get cloned and Luke doesn’t get married.”
~ George Lucas,Total Film Magazine Interview, 2008
https://ibb.co/x5q1RrQ
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“But Lucas allows for an Expanded Universe that exists parallel to the one he directly oversees. […] Though these [Expanded Universe] stories may get his stamp of approval, they don’t enter his canon unless they are depicted cinematically in one of his projects.”
~ Pablo Hidalgo, Star Wars: The Essential Reader’s Companion, 2012
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“I don’t read that stuff, I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try and keep it consistent. The way I do it is they have a Star Wars encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it and see if it has already been used. When I said other people could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have TWO universes: My Universe and than this other one. They try to make THEIR universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.”
~ George Lucas Starlog Magazine Interview, 2005 – https://ibb.co/Km1CcNs
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”The novels and comic books are other authors’ interpretations of my creation. Sometimes, I tell them what they can and cant do, but I just don’t have the time to read them. They’re not my vision of what Star Wars is.”
~ George Lucas, 2004
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“I like to refer to the Interview with Lucas in the Special Editions.When asked about the novels and what not, he simply says:
”Those are another author’s interpretation of what I’ve created, and not to be taken seriously, as far as what is really going on in the Star Wars world.”
~ George Lucas
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“Q: What do you think of the expanded universe of books?
A: The books are in a different universe. I’ve not read any of them, and I told them when they started writing I wouldn’t read any of them and I blocked out certain periods.”
~ George Lucas – “The Furry Conflict and the Great ‘Beard‘ of the Galaxy”
(report based on a Q&A session with George Lucas which occurred at USC on 11-19-03)
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USED
‘The Star Wars Universe has expanded beyond the movies. How much leeway do the game makers and novel writers have?’
“They have their own kind of world. There are three pillars of Star Wars. I’ll probably get in trouble for this, but it’s ok! There’s three pillars: the father, the son, and the holy ghost. I’m the Father, Howard Roffman [President of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three pillars don’t always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he does off on tangents and it’s hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek Universes: the TV show and than there’s all the spin offs. He said they were completely different and didn’t have anything to do with each other. So I said “Ok, go ahead”.
~ George Lucas, TF Magazine Interview, 2008
https://ibb.co/RN9JKJQ
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‘In 2014, Disney declared the Expanded Universe was no longer canon. It became ‘Legends’. What do you think of this, seeing all of your work suddenly become non-canon?’
“Those of us writing the EU were always told, all along, from the very beginning (have I stressed that strongly enough?), “Only the Movies are Canon.” Sure, it was disappointing.”
~ Kathy Tyers, EU author [Truce at Bakura, Balance Point] Interview, 2018
http://starwarsinterviews.com/various/authors/kathy-tyers-author/
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Podcast Interview with Steve Perry, Author of Shadows of the Empire from the Expanded Universe –
Interviewer – ‘So what are your thoughts about your book and all the ones that came other than this last year are no longer part of the Official Star Wars Canon ever since Disney took over?
Steve Perry – “Ohh they never were! Nothing was ever canon other than the movies.”
The Ritual Misery Podcast with hosts Amos and Kent, 2015
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“There’s this notion that everything changed when everything became Legends. And I can see why people think that. But, you know, having worked with George I can tell you that it was always very clear — and he made it very clear — that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon. That was it.”
Dave Filoni interview on ‘The Star Wars show’ [41.40 mark]-
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BSR!: Are you worried that this book might fall into the wrong hands and continuity wonks will use this to further bedevil the days of Clone Wars writers?
“Nah, not at all. If anything, the book goes out of the way to remind people that The Clone Wars is an extension of George Lucas’s canonical cinematic universe, on its own tier apart from the Expanded Universe of publishing.”
~ Pablo Hidalgo ‘Big Shiny Robot’ Interview with Bryan Young about Palbo’s EU Book – The Essential Reader’s Companion, October 12, 2012
https://ibb.co/sF3XdfF
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“What George did with the films and The Clone Wars was pretty much his universe ,” Chee said. “He didn’t really have that much concern for what we were doing in the books and games. So the Expanded Universe was very much separate.”
~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator for Lucas Licensing, SYFY WIRE Fandom Files #13 Interview,Jan.2018
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All essentially true, but despite what he says above, Lucas *did* personally okay plot beats [with yes-or-no answers to “can-we-do-this?” questions] on the first chunk of Bantam novels, one at a time. I worked on the property for about five years, from JEDI SEARCH to I, JEDI, and during that time he weighed in on every project. And despite casting off the “EU,” the book publishing program did have one terribly important effect on official SW canon. It established that there was pent-up demand for more movies, and so they were made.
Furthermore, I believe that there were no such plans when the books were launched, because after all, George did give us permission to continue the story.
Finally, some elements of the “EU” actually worked their way into official “canon.” For example, the name of the Imperial headquarters planet “Coruscant” was invented by Tim Zahn in the first novel, HEIR TO THE EMPIRE, and presto! — it shows up in the movies.
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Wow. I never expected a response from you! =]
I really appreciate you taking the time to address these points. I mean, to us old school Star Wars fans who came up as the movies were made and the books were published, you are a well known and respected personality. Your name still rattles thru the halls of Star Wars history and will forever be attached to is legacy.
I feel honored that you took the time to respond to me.
I’ve never been one of those people who said “Lucas had no involvement in the EU”. It may have been limited and it may have waned over the years, but I do know that especially in the earlier years he would answer some question from time to time. Quite honestly, it couldn’t have worked if there was no way of querying him from time to time on somethings. It’s his creation after all, who else is gonna be able to answer certain background questions. I don’t think he would have wanted to just leave it to authors to just make up whatever they want on the history of the Jedi, what they believed, what was within their power and what not. Plus, he made up those characters and so he wouldn’t have just wanted other people to just make those characters act and speak in ways that weren’t consistent with those characters he created. Furthermore, it would be silly to think that the EU came into existence and endured for such a long time without Lucas’ permission!
The fact that the EU stories weren’t a part of the Official Canon, really isn’t much more than an academic distinction. I read those books, comics, I played those games. The fact that Lucas didn’t consider them canon didn’t in any way diminish the enjoyment and entertainment I got from them when I did and I wish people wouldn’t diminish the creative value of those works based solely on their status compared to the canon. As with anything of a creative nature, whether artwork, paintings, music or literature, their creative value is totally subjective. That’s for each person to decide for themselves.
Ya know, there is a ton of people, and it’s pretty much considered a ‘historical fact’ about Star Wars that the EU did help to keep Star Wars relivent and in the minds of fans, and sought after during those long stretches of time when Lucas wasn’t doing much, wasn’t making movies and was concentrating on raising his children.
And like you said, there were some things he did take from the EU and made them canon.
That must have been such a thrill for those authors when they saw something they made up in the EU show up in a Star Wars film on the big screen!
Thank you for all your contributions to the Star Wars Ethos and again for taking the time to respond to me. It’s a huge thrill for me as a life long Star Wars fan.
I wish you well in all your future endeavors, Mr. Dupree. And…
May the Force be with you!!
~ Grim
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If you are truly a devotee, this bit of backstage might interest you:
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I read every part of it before I left my first post even! I love all the background knowledge. There’s so much that goes on behind the scenes, and you said it, I’m a devotee, so I like to gobble up every little bit of trivia on Star Wars I can! I looked at all the ‘Making Of’ books that the late J.W. Rinzler made, and even your first response to me, I learned some things I didn’t know.
Maybe you should write a book about all your experiences editing the Star Wars books with Bantam Spectra, I’m sure a ton of fans would love to hear about those experiences.
If you ever do, maybe we could find out why they called you Mississippi, gotta be a story behind that!
BTW – That interview you did with “The Emperor and Darth Vader” was hilarious.
Your replies are appreciated. Be well.
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On the other hand, as Tom said, more than a few things from the EU found their way into subsequent canon-movies or television, swiped by screen- or scriptwriters, including some of the stuff I wrote. It is all Disney’s now, and they use what they want, and blur those lines.
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Wow. I am a doubly lucky as hell Star Wars fan! two well known, influential Star Wars personalities taking the time to correspond with me and answer some questions!
As I said to Mr. Dupree, I feel honored that you took the time to respond to me, and it’s a huge thrill for me as a life long Star Wars fan.
I’ll be honest with you Mr. Perry, while I read a lot of the EU, I didn’t care for a great deal of it, but I can’t say that about your work. Shadows of the Empire was awesome! It’s probably one of the most influential stories that was ever published in the EU [second maybe only to ‘Heir to the Empire’] and is totally unique in it’s scope, crossing multiple media types in it’s fullness. Books, comics, video game, music, it had everything but a movie on the big screen. People often refer to it as having the magnitude of a film,just without the film!
There are alot of EU novels who’s titles a lot of fans might not remember years after the fact, Shadows of the Empire is right up there with Heir to the Empire in it’s renown.
And as you mentioned, there were somethings from the EU that Lucas did make canon on the big screen, and one such instance of those is from your book, as you mentioned in the Pod caster interview you did with Amos and Kent in 2015 in one of the Special edition movies from the OT, you see that class of ship fly be on the screen.
Dave Filoni actually spoke about it at Star Wars Celebration Europe it 2016, because that same ship was seen in a in the trailer for the third season of Rebels that was shown there and than later was asked by an audience member if that ship was Dash Rendar’s Outrider, and while he said it wasn’t actually Dash Rendar in the ship, he said it was the same class of ship as Dash’s, and that it was a nod to you and Shadows of the Empire. So you had something from you work seen on the big screen twice and in different time frames, Pre-OT and OT era! There’s also the Black Sun Crime syndicate that Lucas made canon in TCWs [2008]
Just in case you weren’t aware of it, here’s the link and the time frame where Dave Filoni talks about the “outrider-class ship’. Sam Witwer [Voice actor for Maul and the Emperor, & The Son in TCWs and Rebels], who was part of the panel perks up and tells dave the exact type ship it was – a YT-2400 light freighter!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBVhBsN1H7Q – [53:30 time mark]
The way Dave Filoni speaks about the ships use, it isn’t like he was just trying to ‘swipe’ an idea from the EU, he did it to honor and pay respect to your work. He’s stated tons of times that the EU wasn’t canon, but he’s also stated that he has a profound respect for the work done in the EU and it was a source of ideas at times.
I’ve studied the Martial Arts on and off myself and I know that’s had a big part in your life, and with that codes of honor in the history are prevalent themes, and honor is important, I do think Filoni was trying to honor your work, even if in just in some small way.
In that vein, as a total Star Wars geek, I feel very honored that you took the time to respond.
I wish you well in all your future endeavors and….
May the Force be with you.
~ Grim
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Wow. I am a doubly lucky as hell Star Wars fan! Two well known, influential Star Wars personalities taking the time to correspond with me and answer some questions!
As I said to Mr. Dupree, I feel honored that you took the time to respond to me, and it’s a huge thrill for me as a life long Star Wars fan.
Shadows of the Empire was awesome! It’s probably one of the most influential stories that was ever published in the EU [second maybe only to ‘Heir to the Empire’] and is totally unique in it’s scope, crossing multiple media types in it’s fullness. Books, comics, video game, music, it had everything but a movie on the big screen. People often refer to it as having the magnitude of a film,just without the film!
There are a lot of EU novels who’s titles a lot of fans might not remember years after the fact, Shadows of the Empire is right up there with Heir to the Empire in it’s reknown.
And as you mentioned, there were somethings from the EU that Lucas did make canon on the big screen, and one such instance of those is from your book, as you mentioned in the Pod caster interview you did with Amos and Kent in 2015 in one of the Special edition movies from the OT, you see that class of ship fly be on the screen.
Dave Filoni actually spoke about it at Star Wars Celebration Europe it 2016, because that same ship was seen in a in the trailer for the third season of Rebels that was shown there and than later was asked by an audience member if that ship was Dash Rendar’s Outrider, and while he said it wasn’t actually Dash Rendar in the ship, he said it was the same class of ship as Dash’s, and that it was a nod to you and Shadows of the Empire. So you had something from you work seen on the big screen twice and in different time frames, Pre-OT and OT era! There’s also the Black Sun Crime syndicate that he made canon in TCWs [2008]
Just in case you weren’t aware of it, here’s the link and the time frame where Dave Filoni talks about the “outrider-class ship’. Sam Witwer [Voice actor for Maul and the Emperor, & The Son in TCWs and Rebels], who was part of the panel perks up and tells dave the exact type ship it was – a YT-2400 light freighter!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBVhBsN1H7Q – [53:30 time mark]
The way Dave Filoni speaks about the ships use, it isn’t like he was just trying to ‘swipe’ an idea from the EU, he did it to honor and pay respect to your work.
In that vein, as a total Star Wars geek, I feel very honored that you took the time to respond.
I wish you well in all your future endeavors and….
May the Force be with you.
~ Grim
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